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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
488
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 16:20:53 -
[1] - Quote
Transparency needs a slider to adjust between zero percent and one hundred percent. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
490
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 16:37:03 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Altrue wrote:My corpmates and I are unanimous, the loss of colors for the icons isn't a positive change. Its fashion and all that, but ultimately it doesn't help differenciating them.
I'm not asking to go back to the old icons, but it'd be cool to have some color differenciation instead of just plain grey icons.
Edit: I'd like to ask you to take some inspiration from the NES icon: Its flat, nice and modern, but it has enough color to be instantly recognizable; Stick with it over the weekend and see how you feel on Monday.
Here's feedback from 5 people in our corp: Transparency needs a slider from 0% to 100%. Leaving things half-transparent makes them unreadable if there's anything bright in the background or som |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
499
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 22:45:08 -
[3] - Quote
Challus Mercer wrote:After some testing i was surprised how good actually the new UI is. It is really easier to work with new abstract icons instead of that old fashioned pseudo 3d icons. Transparency effect is really amazing! Finally i can see more of the space behind all windows. I hope you will keep on removing the excel-look and adding more of sci-fi look into the game! What about negative feedback - there will be allways ppl who just stick to old thing despite of how bad they are and cant accept anything new. So dont let you discourage yourself by such posts.
Not being able to read the text isn't a complaint about how older is better. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
507
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Posted - 2014.11.09 13:52:03 -
[4] - Quote
Challus Mercer wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Challus Mercer wrote:After some testing i was surprised how good actually the new UI is. It is really easier to work with new abstract icons instead of that old fashioned pseudo 3d icons. Transparency effect is really amazing! Finally i can see more of the space behind all windows. I hope you will keep on removing the excel-look and adding more of sci-fi look into the game! What about negative feedback - there will be allways ppl who just stick to old thing despite of how bad they are and cant accept anything new. So dont let you discourage yourself by such posts. Not being able to read the text isn't a complaint about how older is better. You should make a screenshot of it and submit a bug report. This is the only way you can help with development, of course if you really want to help, because some people only want to shitpost on the forums make devs stop any progress they make.
This is from the same thread not more than 6 posts before you. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
513
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Posted - 2014.11.11 11:04:17 -
[5] - Quote
Aerethir El-Kharisti wrote:Yes, there is a black and white option :D
Colour is nice, but I like my space in mostly black. I love the tiny edges of the windows, although I have no idea if they might be distracting in big combat situations (resemblig brackets too much)
Damn, that's what it is, they look like brackets! |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
520
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:42:44 -
[6] - Quote
Revileushin Eyri wrote:Really like the new NeoCom icons, but I agree with people who argue it needs a little something more. I love the minimalism, but then again I'm a modern kinda guy. Tough to decide how to add something without adding too much though. I was playing around with the icons on Photoshop, and I feel like my colours are too discordant with each other. On the other hand, I simply added some white lines to some icons (I especially like the email one), and I feel like maybe those lines aren't enough, or could be coloured. As for the windows (haven't checked to see if this was already brought up), some themes such as green, Gallente and especially Amarr make tab text (chat window tabs, overview tabs, station services tabs) nearly unreadable due to the glow from the selected tab. Finally, for the station services tabs, the number for number of guests seems to be cut off.
How is adding flare, adding gradients and making things 3-5x larger "minimalism"? It's bloat and the UI is now full of it. Minimalistic user interfaces exist because screen real estate is a luxury in some cases and this new UI is going away from it.
- Every window is bigger, or cannot be made as small on Sisi ocmpared to TQ - Every button is larger and has either gradients, "3D-like" button effect, extra wasted space or all 3
Only way to make this change worse is to announce that some of the windows we currently have are going away because they couldn't fix the POS code and just by dropping a new skin to the UI they broke probe scanning and contracts. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
531
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 14:26:28 -
[7] - Quote
Oooh, update!
Yays: Clone bay UI is excellent! Window tabs are not stupidly oversized anymore and seems to be less violent on the blinking. Transparency slider found, not sure what it does, couldn't find any change between 0 and 100.
Nays: Neocon is transparent no matter what slider I fiddle. Blur still present with High settings. Window snapping leaves nasty gaps in the UI which blink and sway around when warping etc (behaves like on TQ, still a bad thing). Tooltips still shine the sun through making them harder to read in some colour presets.
Edit: Guests-tab with numbers still clips with the station panel leaving upper half of the number unreadable. People and Places window is larger than on TQ and cannot be resized as small as before. Can we halve the maximum height for this window as it's quite of a gargantuan compared to every other window?
GRRRR FORUM CLOSING MY CONNECTION STILL AT RANDOM! |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
532
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 17:38:34 -
[8] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:1. Colors in UI are used only by permission of CCP. 2. CCP knows better what colors are better for your gaming experience. 3. Obey and use only colors provided by CCP for your pleasure.
1. CCP knows best 2. If CCP doesn't know best, see #1 |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
534
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 09:33:02 -
[9] - Quote
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Station Services Window is missing. 2 different accounts, several log ins. reset all settings. Cleared cache. Window is still missing
Ctrl+tab to it (it's minimized when you dock) or open ISIS and close it. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
545
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Posted - 2014.11.16 11:24:47 -
[10] - Quote
Now that we have the slider, when can we expect the obnoxious window glow to go away when something is selected and just replaced with slight border colouring (like on TQ)?
Could also use the RGB sliders so I can make the edges, borders and tabs different colour from the active window content, e.g. like it is on TQ with the presets. Optionally one could use with a bit more defined borders between elements instead of small smudges of slightly lighter colour between them.
Here's what I mean on side-by-side: http://i.imgur.com/01cEm0y.jpg It might be that my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to but the subtle dividers between the message and chat log fields is not big enough anymore. |
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
550
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Posted - 2014.11.16 21:31:26 -
[11] - Quote
Sooo, why did you headshot Aura? |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
561
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 12:36:13 -
[12] - Quote
Wadiest Yong wrote: The UI itself. I am puzzled...
- You have swapped the old (current) options in the ESC>General Settings tab with a number of presets. There were presets in the old version as well - and probably even more than in the new list? -, via the check box "easy theme selection", or the pull down menus, which basically do the same thing and even have fancy names). - The old options are far more flexible than what is on offer now. They came with a total of three different sliders. This resulted in users being able to tweak the readability of their UI for just about any color setting on their screens (different models, different properties, different response to contrast, brightness, hue etc). With what you suggest now there are only a few of these presets that pass a readability test. I'm afraid this "new and modernized" version is actually worse than it was before and far less flexible. It's simplified, yes, but a lot worse than before. - The Black preset is half okay-ish but not of the same quality as the old one, so is one of the blues. Readability is poorer than before. Colors on the windows also distract, while their backgrounds clash with the colors in space. - Every window looks foggy because of the unwieldy window backgrounds, visibility in space with low opacity is worse than before. - Moreover, windows with buttons like the probe scanner window have another issue, the light background inside the buttons totally nukes the contrast and makes the colors in the button icons fade. In the selected items window there is not enough brightness on the buttons that can be activated. Plus they have this annoying mouseover background illumination which again make the icon itself less readable (white on light grey) e.g. in the Black preset. - The buttons in the selected item window are not sufficiently scalable (to counteract reduced visibility and overall contrast) - Why the difference in brightness between the (active) buttons in the Selected Items window and any other text on any window ? Or is that, again, an effect from the backgrounds ?
Pretty much this.
UX and UI design need to be done at the same time, what we have now is a mess caused by "What we want the useer to experience" at the cost of "How usable the interface is". UX itself is a horrible concept which should be done at game design level instead of at the UI level; UX has always been the main choice of words to those who provide UI as content opposed to the game as content. In applications where you cannot use the underlying technology as the content, you need to pay attention to the UX. For e.g. military software, the UI is functional and UX is neutral due to the content being the only information which needs to be made available. There is no need for flashy colours or convoluted animations because those can distract your eye from an incoming threat.
Sadly, a major part of UX for game designers is dictating how everything works without any possibility of customization because this is the only way to actually measure the parameters listed in the standard (yes, UX has an ISO standard, ISO 9241-210). Allowing people to make adjustments to the UI causes the data to be too splintered or even corrupt to a point where the effects of the UI on the UX cannot be measured and only avenue of feedback is the 1% of population which posts angrily on the forums. Whatever is currently on the test server is 95% of what we are going to receive, including:
- The blur which limits all visibility behind windows - Lack of RGB controls - Poor readability on most choices because no testing has been done with people who are not color blind or have less than perfect eye sight (corrected or uncorrected) - The opacity change on windows when you mouse over, activate, mouse off or deactivate so that we will have effectively blinking windows when we swap between focus rapidly - The icons are final and will not receive any dolour distinction in the forum of a faint background or a slight hue separating themselves, only minor changes are going to be made to how the look (journal now has a pen isntead of just being a box with lines in it) - HiDPI support will not be implemented for anything else than the new vectorized icons
I'll revisit this post once the UI gets pushed to live to check off things which actually got changed, but I'm fairly sure I'm not going to have to change any of these.
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
561
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 14:33:33 -
[13] - Quote
Nolan Kotulan wrote:Very interesting post, except the conclusion, sadly. Things (icons, corner brackets, ...) have already been changed since the first "release" on Singularity, so... Sadly, they didn't remove the corner brackets... They only made them thinner, which is better but still useless, distracting and aesthetically disgusting...
I did mention the changes on icons, but they will not be made more readable than what they are now is the point I made. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
587
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 16:25:46 -
[14] - Quote
Theon Severasse wrote: Since I've backed up my argument with what came up with my search, maybe you could return the favour CCP and show us the scientific paper that you apparently have access to that shows that it has been "scientifically proven" that colourless icons are easier to recognise?
After spending 3 hours going through google and contacting one of my old professors (exactly his field) I have not been able to find a respectable study to back up the notion of "Removing all colour from context which only includes different and detailed shapes improves the time it takes for humans to find the correct shape". There were about 7 studies with a total of 9 citations between them saying this but they're not either current (1970's says "hi") or were never cited and cannot be considered valid. Three of these studies were limited to 8 shapes or less.
I have to join you on this request on CCP to quote the study. After all, quoting the content of a study and not quoting the study itself is bad form and will get you laughed at. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
593
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:26:50 -
[15] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Theon Severasse wrote: Since I've backed up my argument with what came up with my search, maybe you could return the favour CCP and show us the scientific paper that you apparently have access to that shows that it has been "scientifically proven" that colourless icons are easier to recognise?
After spending 3 hours going through google and contacting one of my old professors (exactly his field) I have not been able to find a respectable study to back up the notion of "Removing all colour from context which only includes different and detailed shapes improves the time it takes for humans to find the correct shape". There were about 7 studies with a total of 9 citations between them saying this but they're not either current (1970's says "hi") or were never cited and cannot be considered valid. Three of these studies were limited to 8 shapes or less. I have to join you on this request on CCP to quote the study. After all, quoting the content of a study and not quoting the study itself is bad form and will get you laughed at. A lot of the core HCI work that's been done was originally done in the '70s. This is one field where the age of the work doesn't necessarily invalidate it. Actually that's true in general. Remember that humans haven't changed much so a human's ability to distinguish between shapes and how color influences that would not have changed since the '70s. Our eyes and brains haven't changed since then, why should the result have? New HCI material that covers interactions that weren't possible in the '70s would be valid and there wasn't a lot on virtual reality then. Also touch screens weren't as refined, but the core concept is there. Ubiquity of touch screens gives us a lot more data than we used to have so some conclusions have changed, but all the core work has been done. The Mac usability guidelines that Apple still uses today are almost unchanged from when Jeff Raskin originally wrote them back in the '70's and '80s. And all that said, iconography predates all of that. So, no, your older studies are still valid.
I tried to make a point over how studies which have citations in the tens or hundreds over this subject confirming CCP's statement is hard to find, I guess I went over board with the prodding.
You don't happen to have one at hand? |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
603
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 09:35:38 -
[16] - Quote
Dear CCP, the glow on selected windows is horrible. Why does an 8th of my screen need to change colour to indicate that I've selected the window? It's getting disorientating after a minute or less.
Old: http://i.imgur.com/7AAO8LZ.jpg
New: http://i.imgur.com/wqTOsAk.jpg
On top of that, windows still do not sit flush and they have gaps. Why can't the snapping feature understand that I do not want 2px padding around all windows? |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
606
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 08:52:37 -
[17] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:ATM, NeoCom ship fitting icon looks like a Rifter.
I think the ship fitting icon should be generic, representing all ships - try something like the triangle-shaped ship used for the ISIS window (not the ISIS neocom icon, but the icon shown in upper left when ISIS is active) OR the abstract triangle icons used to represent ship sizes in ISIS. (The icon representing Battlecruisers would be perfect.)
Actually this, I tried clicking on the fitting service in station (buttons way too small now) and I had to mouse over every single rifter icon to see which one it was. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
635
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 11:33:15 -
[18] - Quote
Now that we're live (and tthere are 2 threads) I need to cross post this somewhat against my will:
Setting Dark Matter and then browsing the wallet; contrast on the red and green text compared to the dark background is killing my eyes. This wasn't an issue on the test client with same settings, but somehow you managed to boost the contrast here.
Can we get the same light grey background when we activate the window like most of the windows, especially chat, do now (outside of selected item)? |
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